Adobe LiveCycle (Archived)

mwstretch1 · 5/7/13

My question is technical, but has a philosophical issue driving it.

Summary:

In Livecycle Designer ES2 (9), I would like to setup a form for digital signature that, once enabled for Reader, you can apply a digital signature without having to immediately save. I know it can be done. Example: http://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/opm71.pdf

Technical:

How is this done? Is it a setting of the signature field object?

Philosophical Underpinings:

1. I don't need the digital signature to be legally defensible, so I don't care if if the document changes after applying the signature, nor will any of the fields be locked down after signing. However, the digital signature everyone at my company uses is the legally defensible type, so using it instead of digital ink is for simplcity's sake.

2. When most people sign a paper document, they usually sign, and THEN date. The problem with Adobe et al.'s implementation of digital signatures is that you have to date, and THEN sign, or else the date field will usually be locked down after you are forced to save the document after signing. I know that a date field is not required when using digital signatures, but you need to date field in case someone decides to print the form and sign the old fashioned way.

3. Because of this conundrum, I made the date field auto-populate with the signing date by applying javascript to the signature field that populates the date field upon signing. The problem with that is that with Adobe forcing me to save the document immediately after signing, the date field does not populate because the signature applies to the version of the document that existed just prior to the signature being applied. Since the date field wants to populate after signing, it is discarded.

Hence, I want to prevent Reader from forcing me to immediately save. I am approaching this philosophical conundrum all wrong?

Signed,

Befuddled

SaketSidana · 5/8/13

"you can apply a digital signature without having to immediately save. I know it can be done."

Whenever a signature is applied, the form gets saved. So, you can't apply a signature without having saved the form. Do some modifications in the form you have provided, save it and validate the signature. Validation would suggest that changes have been done in the form, so signature is invalidated at this stage. This effectively means that data has been changed in the form after signing making it unreliable so to say.

Since you are moving to digital signing in the form, I do not understand exactly why there's a need to manually enter the date after signing the form digitally. Once you sign the form, date automatically comes in the signature. This solves the purpose/use case that user needs to fill in the date. Ideally, you need to remove the date field from the form.

"I know that a date field is not required when using digital signatures, but you need to date field in case someone decides to print the form and sign the old fashioned way."

If you can't remove the date field from the form and want to have a simialr experience in digital world, the option is to write a simple script in the form which checks whether the date is filled in or not. If it's not filled in, abort the signing process and provide a message asking user to fill in the date.

mwstretch1 · 5/8/13

I completely understand that changing the document after signing invalidates the digital signature, I am okay with that for my purpose. I am only trying to save people time by allowing the form to be emailed and digitally signed instead of mailed or hand-carried and signed by hand. I know that you can sign with digital ink, but my intended audience doesn't know how to do that, yet everyone knows how to sign a document with a digital signature.

That being said, how did they setup that form I linked to from opm.gov to not immediately prompt to save after applying a digital signature?

http://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/opm71.pdf

SaketSidana · 5/8/13

You are ok with sign invalidation when user enters the date post signing. So, I believe your use case is met.

"That being said, how did they setup that form I linked to from opm.gov to not immediately prompt to save after applying a digital signature?"

You would be prompted to save while signing when the form is opened in standalone Reader application. If you open the form in browser and sign it, you will not be prompted to save [though the changes would get saved automatically] as file is not saved locally in this case. In this case also, if you enter the date after signing, the sign will get invalidated as expected.

Santosh_Nangunoori · 5/9/13

If you want users to fill in the date before applying digital signature - add a validation to check if the date is filled or not - if validation fails prompt user to fill in the date before applying digital signature (as Saket suggested)

If you want to achieve it via script - add current date to the date field in the preSign event