Do global administrators use text mode - do you think that the Workfront product relies too strongly on text mode?

[Richard__Carlson]

I have been a global Workfront admin for 7 years.  I am not very familiar with text mode, I have cobbled together a couple of things that work with a combination of cut / paste and trial and error.

Do you feel that it is fair for Adobe to lock away so much power exclusively behind text mode?  It is impossible to report on elements more than '3 hops' from the origin object, so in order to build such a report you have to use text mode.  This is just one singular example, there are many other ways to use text mode to do things.

From my perspective, I wish the Workfront tool was more developed so that we don't have to rely on text mode reporting for the truly advanced features.  My previous job experience in graphic design, printing, prepress, etc is because I hate writing code.

I do not have enough time or inclination to learn all of the various API calls, object limits, syntaxes, etc - I have another system to manage in addition to Workfront.  I feel like Adobe is asking too much here.

The only thing we can do is sit here until the product is developed enough to not so heavily rely on text mode?  The concept of sharing actionable Workfront product ideas with Adobe is in the process of being rebuilt.  I am not sure what they were even thinking, it's just a firehose stream of ideas with no semblance of priority of organization.  I honestly saw this coming years ago, how are they going to effectively limit it or improve idea submissions in any meaningful way?  I am very skeptical.

Am I completely off base, please let me know what you think.

[RandyRoberts]

Textmode is actually really simple if you spend some time to learn it. It's easier than Python and Javascript, the 2 easiest (IMO) languages to learn. The "hops" limitation is largely due to a hierarchical database and those bridges are being crossed with almost every WF update. Calculated fields are a really good way to overcome alot of the "hops" barriers.

I think the reporting Canvas will address a lot of those issues as well.

What it really comes down to though is if you want to do advanced stuff, you have to learn how to do advanced stuff.

People who code will ALWAYS be able to do more advanced things than non-coders in any computer environment.

The ideas area is being re-worked and I've heard some positive things coming out of the plan. If you read some of my past posts, you will know that I don't hold back when it comes to calling out mistakes and blunders. The endless stream of unorganised and sometimes inane ideas will be tamed a bit I think, with some of the new developments.

Regarding text mode, it allows advanced users to push Workfront well beyond the limits it was initially designed for. This makes Workfront the most robust Operational System of Record out there. I don't think they are relying on it heavily at all since Workfront still does a lot without it. There's no chance the engineers at Adobe will ever be able to create a point and click method of doing everything we will think of with text mode coding. What we're really talking about here is extensibility.

A LOT of Adobe products are extensible via simple coding, the entire creative suite allows users with little coding skill to create plugins and do some automation via ExtendScript. Without plugins and scripting, Photoshop would not have grabbed all the market share from the Bento Box, Corel PhotoPaint, Digital Darkroom, Letraset ColorStudio, etc.

[Richard__Carlson]

The limitation I described, where someone can't effectively report on something 3 hops away, is something that should be solved outside of text mode.  For those administrators doing this without a supporting team there would be no way to pull it all off.

I will reiterate again to anyone listening at Adobe that I have a complete disdain for writing code.

I would prefer them to improve the product so much that text mode is no longer necessary.

[skyehansen]

I somewhat agree with the both of you. To Randy's point, coders will always be able to do more than non-coders. Let's take my favorite example, which is cars. LOTS of people have cars. Comparatively, hardly ANYONE truly knows how to work on their car (my friend Greg can take his car down to the component parts and put it all back together again, as an example of the other end of the spectrum from me. I can change out my windshield wipers if you give me two hours and a box of tissues).

 Do I have a supporting team at home ready to change my timing belt if I need this done? Nope. Do I have to pay for a mechanic every time? Ya, you betcha. Are there consultants out there you could be paying? Sure. Could you learn to change out your own timing belt? I mean... you see where I'm going here. I'm not grousing at Toyota because I can't figure out what the timing belt does. They publish manuals for my car. I *could* mention to adobe that text mode is a hurdle that the average admin is probably not going to cross. But isn't that why this forum EXISTS.... haha, see what I did there...

[RandyRoberts]

"I would prefer them to improve the product so much that text mode is no longer necessary."

Never gonna happen. Users will ALWAYS do things with ANY software product that the developer never thought of. The notion that the manufacturer can accommodate everything without the need for custom solutions (textmode) is delusional.

Try posting to a Microsoft forum and telling them they should remove VBA, Python, etc. capabilities from Excel because you have a disdain for code, I'd be interested in the replies.

[Richard__Carlson]

To be clear I don't want them to remove text mode entirely - I want them to develop the features and framework sufficiently so that users don't have to rely on what amounts to simple text mode snippets to do fairly basic functions.  This is not asking too much.

The last job I would ever accept would be to administer or work with MS software products all day - I'd rather do hard labor.  Just trying to provide an alternate perspective, by the way I find your posts here interesting and informative even if we happen to disagree on this small thing. 

[RandyRoberts]

I attended a webinar recently with Matt Mitchell (@MattMi3 )who is the lead regarding the new reporting canvas. Matt is a long time Workfront user/employee that actually gets it. He did mention in the webinar, to your point, that there are things Workfront SHOULD do without coding that it currently does not do. I got the impression this is one of his goals in further developing reporting features.

Perhaps Matt chould chime in here and address your concerns and maybe provide some more specifics regarding new developments in making reporting a little bit more code free for folks who aren't into coding.