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Data Services "Express" ?

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Level 2
Is the express version the full version? I am used to express
versions typicaly being watered-down versions of a more
expensive/robust retail version.



Regards.
0 Replies

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Level 2
it's the same, it will revert to the correct edition based in
the license you'll insert during the installation.

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Level 1
From an API standpoint, the Express edition is exactly the
same as the Enterprise edition. The difference is in the rights you
get with the license. With the Express Edition, you can only deploy
applications that run on a single CPU and that are not clustered or
load balanced. there is a more complete discussion of this here:




http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/productinfo/faq/#item-11



Phil Costa

Group Product Manager, Flex

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Level 1
Phil I am still unclear on the FDS Express license. I have a
dual processor web server, no clustering, no load balancing. The
link you provided for "
a more complete discussion" did not clear up my question.



The linked document states "
The Express license does not allow (1) the installation, use, or
access of Adobe Flex Data Services Express software on more than
one CPU
" and later states "
...Flex Data Services Express 2 for use on a single,
nonclustered server.
"



Will FDS Express work on my server with dual processors or
will I need to purchase FDS?



Randy

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Level 1
If you want to run FDS on more than one processor, you would
have to purchase a license, either to the Enterprise edition or the
Departmental Edition.



Phil

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Level 2
Express Edition, Enterprise Edition, Departmental Edition?



I can't find any info on the enterprise or departmental
editions? Anyone got pricing, availability, specifications?



I have contacted Macro-dobe and they stated they don't have
pricing... said I needed to be contacted by a sales rep.

I have yet to hear from them. I've never had much luck with
getting a call from their sales reps...

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Level 1
I must say I’m disappointment with Adobe’s FDS
licensing model. Last week during Adobe’s Developers Week
seminars James Ward clearly stated that FDS would be free for
non-clustered Coldfusion Servers. Secondly, since the Coldfusion
licensing supports servers with 1 OR 2 processors we have purchased
dual processor servers to maximize performance while staying within
the licensing requirements. Why would Adobe release FDS Express and
not have it match the Coldfusion server licensing support of 1 or 2
processors?



I placed a request for a Flex Specialist to contact me about
pricing information on FDS into Adobe two days ago with no response
as of yet. I hope the same pricing problem Flex 1.x faced does not
exist for Flex 2. Since we are a Coldfusion shop, there is less
appeal to purchase Flex Builder without FDS. We may have to
reevaluate purchasing Flex Builder 2 without FDS or purchase single
processor servers to replace our dual processor servers.



Will FDS Express even run on a Dual-Core processor? If not,
many developers will not even be able to use FDS Express for
development on their local machines.

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Level 1
What James said in his presentation is correct. It's free for
up to 1 CPU. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear or if he wasn't being
specific enough. The Express license is meant to be usable in a
production environment, but only for non-mission critical
applications. If you're deploying it in a high-availability,
high-performance environment, you have to license one of the other
versions, just as you would ColdFusion Standard or Enterprise. We
have to make money somehow, don't we?



Just for the record, there are two editions of FDS --
departmental and enterprise. The departmental is limited to use by
100 concurrent users, and it's priced proportionately lower than
the Enterprise edition, which has no limit on concurrent users.



If licensing FDS is out of your budget, you can take
advantage of the free update to Remoting that's included with CFMX
7.0.2, and use that with Flex Builder. It doesn't get you the full
range of capabilities included with FDS, but it gets you the
high-performance data transfer of AMF. That's one of the great
benefits of the new packaging for Flex.



Lastly, to answer your dev question. The CPU limitation on
FDS Express is for deployment only. You can develop on machines
that have more than one CPU, so if that's what your dev machine
looks like, it's not a violation of the EULA.



Oh yes, and sorry if sales hasn't gotten back to you right
away. They're a bit swamped because of the launch, plus a lot of
people are on holiday at the moment.



I hope that answers your question.

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Level 1
Sam,



In an online Adobe Seminar yesterday the cost of the
Enterprise was listed at $20,000. There was no cost availability on
the "Departmental" version. I'm guessing that the whiz-bang stuff
you see in most sales demos, i.e. realtime help desk, etc, can only
be done with the enterprise. When they say that the departmental
version will be "priced proportionately lower than the Enterprise
edition", I'd guess that it will cost about the same as the flex
1.5 license.

I understand that Adobe needs to make money, but this kind
of feels like the old bait and switch. The big sell on Flex 2 was
that the cost wouldn't be as high. Yeah, right.

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Level 2
Mark,



I am compelled to agree with you. I thought Macro-dobe was
making a great breakthrough by allowing so much involvement during
the beta stages and although things were a little muddy regarding
how Flex 2 was to be broken up (data services, builder, charting,
pricing etc etc) I thought things were looking pretty decent.



But realistically, I am looking at Flex 2 now and seeing that
it is an "enterprise level" RIA development tool, but the data
services 2 pricing model doesn't fit the scope of how a company
would host or manage an enterprise level RIA. (I am not going to
develop an enterprise level RIA and put it on a 1 cpu server). Or,
for that matter, the "express" CPU limitations don't match the
server licensing agreements of products that could be considered
daughter products (ColdFusion for example).



Personally, I have put in several requests for contact by a
sales rep; both weeks/months prior to the retail launch as well as
in the recent past and still have yet to hear from anyone. Adobe
sales support quoted Flex 1.5 pricing to me yesterday and said that
they didn't have complete pricing for Flex 2 yet (this is after the
retail release) and that the only way to get the info was to wait
for contact from a sales rep. And that they didn't have a direct
number for sales reps; it was "don't call us we'll call you."



Is the pricing a secret? It'd be nice to know whether or not
Flex fits my scope of development and my plans for implementation.
I am hesitant to by Flex Builder or any other portion if there is a
reluctance to disclose the price of other, possibly necessary,
components such as FDS (my accountant doesn't consider the phrase
"proportionally lower than Enterprise edition" as a dollar figure).



Can someone post the pricing breakdown somewhere?



Please forgive my frustration. But as a developer I need to
know what I am looking at forking out to make this new, great
technology a feasable part of my workflow. And thus far, I have
kind of gotten the feeling that when Adobe asks me how many
employees I have, what my yearly revenue stream and budgets are,
that I am being put on the low-priority list for the sales reps to
call when-and-if.

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Level 1
Sam,



I found this on Ben Forta's site. I understand what he's
saying. I'm beginning to get what he's saying, but I'm still
puzzled. What does FDS Express, or the Enterprise version, for that
matter, offer to me. Based on his article I have no need for FDS,
as the only thing that it appears to have extra is the "push"
technology.

In the end, without all the new bells and whistles, it is a
different way to do RIA's than with the CF and Flash combo. I have
some hard thinking to do on if it's worth the money just to speed
up RIA construction time.

We also purchased a 2 CPU Server to take advantage of CF
Licensing. This has been a letdown. For me to use the sweet new
stuff (Push) I'd need to plunk down another $12,000. It's a sell
that I don't know if I can make. It would have been nice if they
had even offered a reduced fee license for those of us with a
registered CF Server.

I'm not down on Flex per se. I think that the technology is
pretty sweet and it's fun to play with. Apps look great. It's just
that all of the "hype" about cost this has come as a surprise.






http://www.forta.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=cat&catid=A61B605B-3048-80A9-EF9F275818CBF7CC&startRow=26

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Level 2
I hear ya.



I just plunked down cash for 3 Dual Xeon servers and a 2TB
SAN; spent $20,000+



Still would like to get pricing. no sign of the sales rep
calling me...



I am a little foggy on concurrent users. Can anyone help me
get my head around what this is related to?

Is it actual "logged in" users? Or actual impressions on the
site at one time? Or is it tied to only the actual querying/pushing
people are doing?



I'll ask this from the point of view that I am intending to
build RIA's that could ramp up in user-base very quickly (aren't we
all)...like, to give me some visibility on the scope of concurrent
users, what would a site like myspace.com be looking at? If its by
impressions, a company like myspace would max out their server
licensing in about 5 seconds if they started out with the Express
version of FDS (obviously they could afford the dent to their
wallet for ent. version... but humor me)



And one more question. What happens to 101st concurrent user?
Does his page time out? Stall until a slot opens up? Computer start
on fire? 🙂



I know I am needy




XOXOXOXOXOXO

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Level 2
So as to not appear totally needy, lazy and google-inept, I
thought I'd post my research on pricing. Peter Ent spells it all
out for us in his blog:


Peter
Ent's blog entry on Flex 2 Pricing




He also defines concurrent users.

Good info for anyone that is looking to purchase and can't
wait for the sales rep to call 🙂

Avatar

Level 2
Thank you Sam, for your persistence on this issue. I also
waited almost two weeks for an answer from a sales rep. Got a call
today, after contacting adobe in Holland,England,Ireland,Belgium...

The prices look consistent to me: in Europe we got the
following indications: for Departmental 5.500,00 euro, for
Enterprise 18.500,00 euro. At an exchange rate of about 1 euro =
1,22 dollar, they are a little more expensive in Europe compared to
Peter Ent's blog.

We are also reconsidering now, and are curious to the
reactions of our client base.



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Level 2
Still no contact from a sales rep here...



Good to know the pricing though at least we have visibility
on what we need to spend.