ADEP

[Livecycle_Archi]

Just spent some considerable money investing in the LiveCycle suite for our Government agency.  We bought into the suite, as it was well reviewed on Gartner.  I wanted to look into purchasing another module for Output ES2 and went to the Adobe website.  There is no more LiveCycle now.  Replaced with "ADEP" Adobe Digital Enterprise Platform.  They won't even use the name LiveCycle any more.  No call from our sales rep.  No pre-announcement.  No notice when we just spent another 55K this month on LiveCycle licensing. 

Adobe, bad bad move.  This is a marketing nightmare for whomever dreamt this up.  Bad bad bad bad move. 

Now, if we want to add any functionality, we must spend hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Adobe_ejs]

Hi,

Thanks for the post.   Yes, we have made changes to the branding and packaging.   We just announced the new release and the ADEP name publically today and are just starting to roll out the new brand.   LiveCycle is now part of the Adobe Digitial Enterprise Platform. As an existing LiveCycle customer you can still purchase modules such as Output or buy more licenses for modules you already own.   You will not be required to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to ad functionality.

Let me know if you have more questions or want me to put you in touch with your account rep.

[Livecycle_Archi]

Thanks for the quick reply.  If you look at the Livecycle page, it now has FAQ's about ADEP.  One of the things it says is that you cannot purchase modules you did not previously own.  You can only purchase additional licenses for modules you own.  Otherwise, you need to upgrade to ADEP.  With ADEP it is either Basic or Standard.  It is a few hundred thousand dollars from what I was told online.

From a marketing point of view, LiveCycle was in the upper right quadrant of the Gartner report for BPM.  That is a GOOD thing.  With the rebranding, you lose that.  Also, potential buyers don't like investing in a product line that is short-lived, requiring customers to go through major upgrades.  You lose trust from your customers when that happens.

This is really a giant shame.

[Adobe_ejs]

Hi again.   I located the FAQ you mentioned.  Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) that information is incorrect.

You CAN purchase additional modules that you did not previously own.   We are working on updating the FAQ information.  My apologies for the misinformation.  There are lots of i's to dot and t's with a big launch and I guess we missed one.

As for LiveCycle, BPM and the analyst community, we have worked extensively with the analysts to inform them about ADEP.   LiveCycle Process Management will continue to be part of Document Services and the new platform.    Major changes are not required to upgrade to the newest version and Gartner is well informed about how Document Services fits in with ADEP.  We'll make sure our position in the MQ isn't lost.

I really appreciate your feedback and we'll get the FAQ updated shortly.

[Livecycle_Archi]

I see the FAQ's were updated but the whole thing is still very confusing.  The channel partner that sells to us has no idea what the upgrade paths are either.  Our sales rep has not called me back, although he has read the emails.  I assume he doesn't know what is going on either.  The FAQ's say that there are no plans to put LiveCycle on end-of-life status, but that intimates that the product(s) will not be updated with new releases.  Why should any current LiveCycle customer not be panicked that they have bought into a dead product line?

The FAQ also says that the "Livecycle modules that support "Document Services" will continue to run in the same J2EE environment that we already support.  Under the new platform, we are moving many existing LiveCycle capabilities to run in the new OSGi environment to provide enhanced capabilities."

Question 1: What is Document Services in ralationship to LC?  It looks like it is part of Acrobat.com.

Question 2: We were looking forward to the possibilities of LiveCycle ES3, ES 3.5, ES4, etc.  We would normally get those with support and maintenance.  Now that you are abandoning LiveCycle, we will not get those upgrades unless we purchase a new product?  Other BPM vendors do not do this.  Am I incorrect in my interpretation of your FAQ's?

Thanks for your replies.

[Adobe_ejs]

Hi

Ok, let me try to clear some things up with some clear statements.

LiveCycle services such as Forms, Output, Process Management etc. have become what we call Document Services in ADEP. They still extend the capabilities of a JEE application server. There are a number of enhancements to these Document Services.   There are no significant architecture changes from ES2 and upgrade from previous LiveCycle versions is straight forward.   LiveCycle (Document Services) provides a core set of capabilities within ADEP, and we will continue to support and enhance them.  There will be new releases of LiveCycle/Document Services in the future and they will be available under maintenance and support.  

Let me reiterate:

1. Document Services == LiveCycle services such as Forms, Output, Process Management, etc.

2. LiveCycle is not being abandoned, in fact it provides core capabilities within Adobe Digital Enterprise Platform.

3. There will be additional releases of Document Services (nee LiveCycle) that you will be entitled to under M&S. These services will ship as part of ADEP, but you can continue to use the services you have and buy other services if you require them.

Clearly we need to make some changes to the FAQ to explain this better.  Sorry for the confusion.

Hope this helps.

[Livecycle_Archi]

Actually, this is very clear and I hope you guys can get the site updated.  Maybe you should write the FAQs.  I do appreciate the time you've taken to address this issue.  I do love the LiveCycle suite of products and how easy they are to use and customize.  You guys have done a great job with the tutorials and blogs, so hopefully this transition will become more clear very quickly. 

Thanks and best of luck with all of this.

[Adobe_ejs]

Glad I could help.  The FAQ will be updated and the training of the Sales team and partners is underway and ongoing.

Thanks for you patience and for voicing your concerns.

[Former Community Member]

You will probably have noticed that the LiveCycle content has been restored to Adobe.com which should make finding the marketing-related content easy for you.

Now, if you would like a "non-marketing" description of what "ADEP" really is, take a look at Jayan's post from yesterday on the LiveCycle blog: http://blogs.adobe.com/livecycle/2011/06/adobe-retires-the-livecycle-brand-its-services-become-part-.... It is really clear and concise.

Now, if you have any other questions, concerns, or anything for that matter. Call 1-800-866-8006 (Adobe main number) and find me in the directory. I will be more than happy to ensure you have a clear and concise picture. On the same note, IM me directly with your real email address (do not post it to the forum in a reply) and you can be nominated for the prerelease program for early exposure to new technology.

Lastly, if you would really like to get some hands-on with ADEP then I would suggest attending the Max pre-conference CEM session. We'll be covering ADEP in great detail.

Lee Sutton